TINKER TAILOR SOLDIER SPY [ icons x 56 ] KATE WINSLET [ icons x 34 ]

[narnian]

Because I'm a fucking lunatic sob. What is wrong with me.

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Comments are love <3

Thank you for looking. o/

Comments

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

asfdasfjasflaksf;as; YOU ARE TOO SWEET. SERIOUSLY. I was just going to talk about what I was thinking of changing, but, you know, since the banners are RIGHT THERE and all: I'll probably tweak more later (http://dialectical.livejournal.com/profile), but only minor font changes/colors/etc. Anyway, that banner makes ANYTHING look pretty. THANK YOU. 8D

I really need to try to re-bond with Cobb. I used to, idk, have an affinity for him? Truly and really--I get his motivations, his heart-breaking, but... Suddenly--this. BUT, it's like I switched. Because I originally didn't care about Mal at all and now I'm like: 'MAL YOU AMAZING, SEXY, WONDERFUL, FASCINATING, AND AWESOME THING. YOU HAVE NO EQUAL.'

/spaz D:

[narnian]

MEFSDIOHJKEIOHFSJKD IOJEKFLSD I OEIJKLSD /ROLLS ON YOU --- DO WITH IT ANYTHING YOU LIKE LMFAO I am always like *_* at the idea of remixed graphic but i have no idea how do shot so olmegudoifjkliejoklfd :33333


AITOJEWKFSD LIKE I SEE THE THING---- I LOVE THEM BOTH and they both have ENORMOUS faults.LMFAO I just I SHOULD BE CAREFUL HERE CAUSE I COULD GO ON AT YOU FOREVER about Cobb and Mal as separates, as well as one whole, and yeah ugh just uwiojteklfsudoijkluiojefklsd


/MORE SPAZ UWOEJGLSKDM

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

PFFFFFT, NOT THE GRAPHIC. THERE WAS A TIME, long long ago when I could Photoshop. Then I got a Mac. Now, I would only ruin it. WHAT I MEAN IS: THE FONTS ARE CLASHING BETWEEN THE GRAPHIC AND THE REST OF THE PROFILE. Maybe that's just me that thinks that fonts can clash? asnfakasflsa. /geek

What character in Inception isn't FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH FAULTS? That's why they're all so lovable and crazy and awesome. PLEASE DO GO ON. THIS CONVERSATION INTERESTS ME GREATLY.

[narnian]

HMMM WELL HELVETICA being a sans serif it's pretty universally applicable and your current font seems not BAD with it but I can see how you might want something....hmmm a little less constructed? Or perhaps MORE flourishing to give it that bang of an accented opposite - which I admit I like too <---- geeks also weep

WELP OKAY SO MAL. One person I know put it very well we get two views: Cobb's guilty manifestation of her and Arthur's endearment.

That said UHHH I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT WAY TOO MUCH AND LET'S ACTUALLY START WITH COBB OOPS.

Dominick Cobb. Reasonable to say he was under the tutelage of one Professor Miles, very reasonable to say he was among the first taught by him and possibly was later brought into the military as a consultant and then architect. That all said he was obviously good at what he did; he's deranged emotionally but efficiency and capacity for talent-wise he wouldn't say I NEED SOMEONE WHO IS AS GOOD AS I WAS just for punch, there's a root there. Add to that that he's an EXTREMELY good extractor, well, he has this compelling WAY about him and whether that's to do with pretending or just playing at what gets people to open up, he's got it. If we channel this into a positive light or more so at least, what it takes the shape of is something brilliant and a little dangerous - sharp, driven, fallibly passionate, and perhaps a little too singular without entirely recognizing it in regards to dreams and going deeper, learning, knowing more- always more.

This may not make sense, it's early here, too. D:

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

...dealing with HTML/fonts tomorrow, because they make me sad in the early morning. D:


AND JUST FYI: I LOVE ALL THIS COBB-MAL THOUGHTS AND THAT YOU TYPED ALL THIS AT 6AM.

Most of this on Cobb I mostly agree with, actually. I might argue the military connection thing, but I'd say he's talented and willing to take risks/try crazy-ass-shit (Mr. Charles, inception, etc). And "fallibly passionate" most of all--with Mal and with dreams and with people. Doesn't a lot of his extractor mystique come from this very quality? (Where Arthur would prefer to play politic, Cobb goes straight out and asks Saito: "What's the most resilient parasite?" and lists horrible, insidious things. He's not unaware of the effect, but his passion is carrying him along and he expects it to work on whoever he's talking to as well. That's how he sells Mr. Charles to Fisher--his own passion and confidence.) But these fixations--based in passion/confidence (heedless, dangerous confidence in some cases) are his downfall as well.

BUT, IDK, I still feel like we meet him at an awkward time. If I had met the passionate, trainwreck (literally) waiting to happen of pre-Inception? I think I could have really gotten into the character more. But as someone already so fixated, so intent that he's in these circular, purgatory-like mental processes? Hmm.

YAY, ON TO READING THE NEXT LARGER PART. AKSNLAKFA;

[narnian]

YES I just think they were Mal's downfall too. We know that she chose to forget so it's hard for me when people make him out to be the bad guy sob ;; lmfffff uijotklewsfdu9iojklefusoidjkluoeijfklsd I get into him because I know the charismatic predecessor is in there, that he wasn't always this way but I HAVE A THING for characters like that such as Peter Pevensie of Narnia sob SO >>

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

Maybe so. At the very least she's complicit, because it's not like he put a gun to her head. BUT he's easy to blame, because he blames himself?

I don't know, I still think if I had 'met' Dom at any other time, I would have been more into him. Unreliable, selfish narrator/perspectives do it for me, but idk asdjasks;adlk it's--I just--I can't.

[narnian]

WELL IT'S MORE LIKE she CHOSE to forget. He wouldn't have ever had to wake her up the way he did if she....hadn't done that |D so it's like DERRRR when people overlook that is all. I do not discount that he's in the blame, he definitely is but like I would call it half and half or we run the risk of victimizing and villainizing two people who were so clearly both......equal parts I think.

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

BUT BUT BUT

She "chose" to forget as a way of coping. And can she really be blamed in any way for that? If that's how you have to keep hold of your sanity? Cobb makes the opposite choice and selfishly tries to impose/force his view of how to deal with the situation on her on his own terms. That's pretty jacked up even if she was lost in her own head. SOOOOO, I'm not going to buy the 'she CHOSE to forget' argument. Not to VILLAINIZE him (because in the end they're both just a touch egocentric in a partnership that requires so much more of them both and it didn't turn out well for either involved) but it's not like choosing to forget is even rooted in a fault of her own. It's just I-don't-want-a-brain-of-scrambled-egg insurance.

[narnian]

Hmmm well I guess then it largely depends on how you define 'she chose'.

To me, it always meant that she chose to forget her reality - perhaps due to fear, perhaps due to whatever else, but the fact of the matter is in a situation like that? That was the wrong choice when you have KIDS up above. Be as afraid as you want but have the idk nerve to face the choice you made after staying in limbo for so long. >>;;;; I know that 'she chose' can be interpreted differently however so definitely to each his own.

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

" That was the wrong choice when you have KIDS up above."
But not everyone has the mental fortitude to just deal with an unspecified amount of time in limbo! Kids or no, if one doesn't escape with mental health in tact...what good would it be anyway? D:

The WRONG CHOICE was, if you want to get technical, when BOTH PARENTS decided to experiment with dangerous dreamshare TOGETHER. It's a part of that whole fixation/mutual integration thing. They were wrapped in themselves (as individuals and as a couple) long before these concerns.

(By the way, just arguing because I find this fascinating and I have fun with it. Not to be obnoxious or 'I'M RIGHT' about it. It's just interesting to see the different angles people think of idk?)

[narnian]

AHAHAAH SCREAM WELL I just if she had it in her to DECIDE to do that I just know for me that's a hugely wrong choice. Obviously she didn't escape with her mental health in tact REGARDLESS weep so it's like derrrrrrr.......... I mean again with the two of them experimenting, that's obviously wrong but that being a given - when we go down to limbo when we go with WHAT WAS WRONG it's 1. Mal choosing to forget (for me) and 2. (equal blame) Dom choosing to wake her up the way he did.

NEITHER of them were built TO deal with that because no one is, but I do think better choices could have been made but they weren't of course WHICH BRINGS US TO INCEPTION SO OVERALL I CANNOT COMPLAIN SOB I just with their characterizations especially I have so many nitpicks which I suppose don't fly overall but like I am equal parts ANGRY AS HELL at Mal and Dom and IN AWE of them.......both. SO >>;;;;



(NO NO LMFAO I GET IT IT'S FINE, SAME HERE IDK I think we should be able to discuss without worry!!!!)

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

I just can't see self-preservation as something for which someone should/can be blamed! And if she didn't escape with her sanity, I WONDER WHY THAT IS. I really can't make the jump to blaming her at all for Dom's decision to MESS WITH HER HEAD. I mean, that's just...really, really wrong no matter how it's sliced. So, if we're going to assign blame, I would go with: BOTH EQUALLY for experimenting together without safeguards in the first place, Mal for choosing to forget without Dom (independent decision making in a codependent relationship = always bad), and Dom for choosing to wake her by force through accidental inception.

Honestly, their whole relationship is creepy and awesome. I don't really have the awe that I probably should, but I find it fascinating. I don't really have that many nitpicks on their characterization, because I haven't really haven't read all that much that really explores there characters?

...which I should probably, you know, go out of my way to fix one day. D:

[narnian]

YOUR break down is my break down I think we are just also suffering communication break down. My tendency to want to EMPHASIZE that Dom is not the only one to blame is often the cause for this.


AHAHAHHHAHAHAHA WELL I JUST......I HAVEN'T read much. I have done a great deal of extrapolation however. It's mostly embarrassing how much.

[narnian]

Enter Mal - lovely, yes, but more than that - the perfect half to Dominick's lone-standing 50% and she's just as driven - if not more so - and selfish enough that she doesn't let him do only what he wants to do; she builds with him and she perhaps around the time of the invention of their totems, ends up teaching him a few things. Being the daughter of Miles has its ins and some of that would be the pure academia of dreams; Mal was probably a walking textbook with none of the textbook affects which made her more like a dream herself, and I imagine when she navigated she almost became integral; she was a force of nature and I am sure only that equal parts danger and loveliness could be the thing to draw Dom in when he was already so taken with the dream.

Put them together and it's charged, it's electric and it's fearsome because you know it's going to be so good while it's good, and when it's bad it's going to be irreparably so. Which it ends up being.

I think then when we get to canon the broken man we have as Dom is....he blames himself, that's clear but part of him logically knows it's not his fault alone. When he recounts to Ariadne he tells her that Mal chose to forget something. Now we don't know why but to me she looked haunted, fearful. It occurred to me and a couple of other people that maybe they had gotten caught up in each other, in the dream and maybe once X amount of time had passed and Dom first suggested waking up, Mal had been afraid - afraid of how much time might have passed up top, and afraid especially because they had left their children; I know people like to paint Mal as fearless but I think it's important to note that even the Shade fears.

She fears losing Dom; that's the only way you get that kind of wretchedness that we see when she yells at him - you promised. I think that he knows that he betrayed her by not warning her, by not telling her but it was not ALL his fault. He wasn't the one who CHOSE to forget which when people overlook that it makes me livid in that stupid-fandom-meta-don't-care-so-much-Haku-gosh way LMFFF embarrassing but there you go. To vilify Dom or Mal completely is so wholly inaccurate and unfair and if we need just one reason for it it's this: look at how much they loved each other and really, think about Arthur.

She was lovely. Note on Mal. Him following Dom for years when he basically gets treated like....well, you know. Note on Dom. Cobb pausing when Ariadne tells him he can explain to Arthur, can show him what she saw and she'll let the subject drop and Cobb getting her that seat on the plane. Some people say this is Cobb folly again, Cobb selfishness but I want to argue that it's not. He IS selfish, absolutely we see that plenty with the whole RISKING YOU ALL REGARDLESS thing alone. But when he pauses with Ariadne about Arthur he looks conflicted and it's, more, I think, because he knows that Arthur who knew Mal (Arthur who keeps running into Mal in Cobb's dreamscapes, getting shot and who knows what else) might not be able to take it, or at least that it wouldn't do him any favors. I know it's arguable both ways but it's important to me that both sides are put out sob and I know the villainous route will be the more obvious and likely chosen.

Anyways uh WOW IDK WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THAT IT'S 6AM BUT

THERE IS MORE JUST IT'S ALL KIND OF SKIPPING-STONED AROUND.

/)_(\

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

The thing about Mal that really interests me is that we only get her through Cobb's perceptions of her. There is no such thing as an unbiased look at Mal--everything is filtered through his interpretations, even the 'factual' events. (This is illustrated perfectly by how long he keeps back essential information regarding her death and his role in it. And that's something he knew/could admit to himself. What about the things he just didn't see/know/had a mental block against?)

Mal recognizing the need for totems intrigues me. Is it because she saw the propensity within herself to lose herself or was it Dom's tendency to fixate/go deeper that she was warding against? Or was it merely an academic analysis that later turned against them? IT'S FASCINATING, I TELL YOU.

"Put them together and it's charged, it's electric and it's fearsome because you know it's going to be so good while it's good, and when it's bad it's going to be irreparably so. "
Yes, yes, definitely this. No love that makes anyone 'half a whole' or 'a lover' by definition rather than being defined by the self will escape whole after it's gone--and it always goes.

"I know people like to paint Mal as fearless but I think it's important to note that even the Shade fears."
I would agree with this. Mal was human and needed to have all the nuances that entails, including fear. But I'll maintain that the Shade cannot be an accurate vision of Mal-as-she-was, because she's constantly filtered through Dom. It's difficult to say how much of the Shade's concerns were her as well. She asks after the children in the Saito scene, but--is that her, or is that Dom's guilt? The same could be said of her fear of losing Dom: obviously there is a basis in reality--she tried to pin him into having to jump with her, but at the same time the choice to live out and hear those words repetitively in his mind is Dom's choice, you know? In fact, I sort of like this, because even then, it's impossible to separate them until he really lets her go, because they're literally indistinguishable from each other. Mal is fully integrated into Dom after her death, but she's alive in some way. Dom, for his part, is alive, but not whole without taking her and the Shade into consideration.

ajsfiajlsfsa does this even make sense, idk.

ANYWAY: ARTHUR!

I love, love, love the line where Ariadne asks him about Mal and he responds, "She was lovely." Of all the ways he could choose to describe her, this person who is no more except in a warped ephemeral version of herself, is this one, single word: lovely. And I agree, Cobb-folly isn't necessarily the best way to explain not telling Arthur. The soft way Arthur says 'lovely' explains all of them without ever being specific. Arthur knew them both--maybe he'd put the story together and that's something Cobb can't stand. Or maybe Cobb needs to keep these things separate for his mental health. Whatever, it's his call. Though, bringing Ariadne into the death-trap, too, does illustrate his selfish ability to fixate beautifully.

Um. Yeah. YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T WANT THIS TL;DR THING IN RESPONSE. BUT HERE YOU GO ANYWAY.

[narnian]

I THINK MY THING IS we do get a look at Mal if only through Arthur. And that's not Cobb's perception of her at all. Until the end. Then we know that he loved her that she was driven, that she was imperfect and that they were so in love that for SOME FUCKED UP REASON their limbo was DEVOID of anyone else. While SAITO populated like a small island lmfao sob idefk Mal and Dom so selfish I cannot EVEN.

Mal as she was is summed up as lovely, driven, imperfect, compelling. We don't know the specifics but that much at least is all there in canon via Arthur and Dom at their most honest.

Shade Mal is indicative of echoes that have truth but the truth is even if it's his subconscious they were THAT integral to each other as you said that it makes sense that the concerns and fears would resonate the same, ghost or no ghost. I just think Mal is compelling and I love her but she has so much of a PROBLEM about her that I am like I FEEL THE NEED to point it out to people over and over because sob THIS IS MY LIFE LMFAO FAILLLLLLLLLLLL

/SOBS PAWS ROLLS

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

"...that they were so in love that for SOME FUCKED UP REASON their limbo was DEVOID of anyone else. While SAITO populated like a small island lmfao sob idefk Mal and Dom so selfish I cannot EVEN."
Ahahaha, this this this this. Way to be CREEPY, GUYS. ALSO, on a random note, this is fascinating about limbo in general--I really wanted to see how different characters contruct limbo, you know? Even SAITO's limbo is already somewhat based off of Cobb's conception of it and his civilian mindset (perhaps hence the people, too, since he's not used to thinking of dream population as projections etc etc).

But Back to Mal-Dom...

Regarding Arthur's comment, maybe it is a look at the 'real Mal,' but it's like a peripheral glance that we can't really make much out from. Nothing detailed or defined anyway. Perhaps the closest we get is in Cobb's movement towards honesty and the 'real Mal' (as opposed to his Shade), but there's no way to really say. Of course she was flawed and imperfect--she was human. But the exact lines will always be in flux, because we never get the straight-on view of her, you know? (Ha, hello, all the reasons/ambiguity I love about Mal.) But, yes, I agree: she is compelling and she has problems (and they're not all named Cobb, nor totally revolve around him--though a fair number do) and she's complex...

"Mal as she was is summed up as lovely, driven, imperfect, compelling. We don't know the specifics but that much at least is all there in canon via Arthur and Dom at their most honest. "
Really, there just needs to be MOAR FIC exploring this. D:

[narnian]

LMFFF I THINK MOST PEOPLE DO NOT tackle fic for the reasons we're bringing up - that there is such INSANE room to.........frankly, do it badly. And if it's going to be done it has to be thorough, WHICHEVER way one takes it and I think a good narrative argument is as involved adn worth it as something that takes up the stance that I have, just as long as it's complete. Which is hard to achieve given we have so little but it WOULD be nice to see it more so EVEN IF PEOPLE ARE SCARED TO DO IT >||||||||||

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

...when you put it like that, I totally see why there isn't much out there. WAY TO BE INTIMIDATING. D:

[narnian]

AHAHAHA SCREAM IT'S JUST I CAN SEE WHY it would be ........A REALLY DAUNTING TOPIC. BUT I also believe if a writer is confident in his/her stance then as a reader I'd be willing to go along for the ride you know? Just like with all good fiction and Malllllll sob just want moar Mal and frankly more Cobb >|

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

...Cobb is strangely absent from fanfiction despite being the lynchpin character of Inception.

BUT maybe that makes sense, you know? Fanfiction tends to try to fill in blanks. Maybe people just feel like Cobb has been filled in pretty well already?

[narnian]

SEE I DO NOT THINK we get a proper look at him at all re my whole thing with my ideas on precanon etc but then again I think WAY TOO MUCH about ALL of the characters.

For fandom to overlook him re movie perspective however to me is an oversight, plain and simple. There is always more knowledge >/ lmffff or rather room to explore and I AM JUST AUOPJEKLGSD

But I am also like idk I DO GET that most people odn't care for him sob lolol

/lonely candle .....bearer......

[dialectical.livejournal.com]

Aahhaha, poor you.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I CANNOT HELP BUT POINT OUT THAT THE ONE PIECE OF FANFICTION I'VE SEEN FROM YOU IS ARTHUR/EAMES?

[narnian]

MMMM WELL all the stuff I write for Dom tends to be precanon headcanon stuff and not fic-worthy. It's not a story. It's LITERALLY my thoughts on him.

Which uh IDK FORUM FOR THAT LMFAO SCREAMING.